The brand new genealogists most of the think about it extreme you to definitely Nicholas’ spouse Clementia are integrated here as, below regular things, she’d not said. When Susanna during the specific later day obtained out over a separate protector, the brand new spouse of that protector was not said.
This will imply that Queen John invested a bit indeed there and you will the potential for a keen amorous liaison having Clementia can be found
What follows here’s a theory state-of-the-art by certain eminent genealogists, but it is fair to say that the fresh new findings is hotly contested!
So it theory causes a delightful and you can interested ‘twist’ regarding story of Joanna, which may attract admirers off HBD!
At first glance, there would be absolutely nothing to suggest any partnership between your hostage, Susanna out of Wales and you may Clementia, partner off Nicholas de Verdun. Yet not, the feel of certain genealogists which have overseas hostages, instance youngsters, could have been which they was indeed usually placed which have household members, if any was available.
Jumping toward 1236, you will find an entry on the Tewkesbury annals and that applies to Joanna’s mother since “King Clemencie!” They checks out in part:
Now, we know your mother off Joanna is called Clementia (Clemence?
In such a case this new monk was obviously indulging within the medieval legalism. Prior to their own passing, Joanna ended up being legitimised of the Pope. Based on you to legitimisation, brand new Tewksbury monk plainly grabbed it through to himself to raise Joanna’s mom on position regarding King, because if their mommy was actually Queen John’s wife! It is true not, that King John and Clementia was in fact never ever partnered. From the dealing with Joanna’s mother given that “Queen” Clementia, the newest monk who submitted Joanna’s passing is actually proving his tall brightwomen.net Klik her for at lГ¦se admiration for Joanna, although not attempting to replace the real things.
Are you aware that title of Clementia de- Verdun, Paget suggests that she are the fresh child of Roger de- Dauntsey, away from Wiltshire. You to genealogist considers it extreme that Clementia regarded of Wiltshire because the he has pointed out that Queen John had a robust accessory in order to one state, they being the family regarding his most trusted allies, brand new Longespee, ilies and Geoffrey Fitz Peter.
Genealogists have found that name ‘Clementia’ was really unusual among English noblewomen with the months. In a single table out of women’s brands which had been compiled, there have been merely a few occurrences of your own term “Clementia” from all in all, 1407 women in new decide to try! The reality that anybody entitled Clementia will be for the Susanna represents high.
Very! The data was suggestive, although not conclusive, that when you look at the 1228, Susanna, given that a hostage, gotten out to this new care of their own maternal grandma, now partner off Nicholas de Verdun!!
The brand new Scottish genealogists of your own MacDuffs’ keep you to Susanna ferch Llywelyn was given birth to 1214 for the Gwynnedd, Wales and you can passed away c. 1259 inside the Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She hitched Malcolm MacDuff, Earl out of Fife inside the 1230 and had two children: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl out of Fife, produced 1245, died 1270 and you can MacDuff MacDuff produced 1247.
Obviously, you’ll find stop arguments to that it conjecture! Queen John had of several mistresses and perhaps up to 7 illegitimate college students. The caretaker out-of Joanna could have been produced circa 1172 and you will marriageable circa 1184. Joanna by herself came to be circa 1191 (14 yrs old during the time of their own marriage so you’re able to Llywelyn). Rohese, the latest recognized legitimate daughter out-of Nicholas de- Verdun with his wife Clementia was created circa 1210-1213. In the event the Clementia are mom off Joanna, she would can be found in their own later 30’s, early 40’s when pregnancy so you’re able to Rohese! Not impossible, some state, but unlikely.
